Worries

[fbhjr]

So, last night our marriage counselor asked if I had considered
anti-anxiety medication and suggested maybe I should if I hadn’t.
I have very mixed feelings on the subject.
On one hand, I have been very anxious lately. Quite afraid my wife will
leave me again or resume her affair with the other man. My being anxious,
worried and fearful of these things is not helping our relationship.
And, when she did leave me, she left because conditions with me along those
lines had become very bad and it was more than she could take.
If a medication could take the edge off of that, then it might help.
The other hand is much longer. Sorry about that for those of you who are
going to wade through it.
Things got so bad because I feared (correctly) that she was fooling around
with another man. And, I feared (correctly) that she was turning away from
me and falling in love with him. And, I feared (correctly) that we were
coming to a point where her feelings for me would not be enough for her to
remain with me.
How I reacted to those fears did not make things better, and cause my wife
with withdraw faster and farther than she might have otherwise. And, that
is what caused her to ultimately leave.
An anti-anxiety medication might help with that. But, those things aren’t
what started her turning away. They aren’t what started her looking for
support from other people.
That started because she came to believe that I did not love her any more,
respect her any more or want her in my life.
To counteract that, I need to show her more love, more respect and how I do
need her in my life. If that happens, maybe she will turn back to me more
and less towards him.
And, I don’t see how medication will help me do that.
It would be one thing if he said that my fears weren’t real.
But, he doesn’t. Instead he says that they are very justifiable and I have
every right and reason to be afraid of those things.
And, I do understand the worry is over the intensity of my reactions to
those fears.
However, it still make sense to me to try and resolve the cause of those
fears, not just treat the symptom of them.
If I can show my wife how important she is to me, isn’t that better? Won’t
that have the end result of what I want?
Looking up the effects of some of these medications I’ve found lists of
their effects, intended and not so intended.
They list things like apathy, disinterest, loss of sex drive.
My wife says the big attraction to the other man is that he makes her feel
wanted, cared for and sexy.
Do I really want to take a medication that will lessen those aspects of me
when she already says I don’t give her enough of it? Won’t that just make
the problem worse, even if I wouldn’t be as worried about it?
If, as both my wife and the counselor have said, my fears are legitimate,
isn’t it better to solve that and not the symptoms of them?
If you’ve got a building that may fall down, isn’t it better to shore up
the base and not give parachutes to people on the top floor?
I’ve been told by many bosses at several companies that by best asset as an
engineer is that I focus on a problem and don’t let go until it is solved.
They’ve used almost the exact same words for it that my wife uses to
describe my behavior towards our relationship now.
Would doing this get rid of one of my biggest assets professionally?
My work output has not been at its best through this crisis as it is. A
major project is now well behind schedule. While it’s true, other people
did not do what they were supposed to do for it, I didn’t hound them to get
it done either. Usually I do, even though it means making people in other
departments do what I tell them to do. So, while even my boss says it’s
not my fault it’s behind, I know I could have done more to avoid that if I
hadn’t been concentrating on other matters.
But, would medication have helped me to do that? Or, would it have just
stopped me from concentrating on either? Would it make me like this all
the time, not just when I’m worked up about my marriage?
I don’t like being like this. That much is very true.
But, it has very clear causes. It still makes far more sense to me to
address those.
And, I don’t think our counselor does have a good handle on how we
interact. I’m in no way trying to criticize him for that. But, he’s only
seen us eight times. In those eight times I think he’s gotten a better
handle on us than the last guy did in more than a year.
But, I think that his view is still too stereotypical. And, I think this
suggestion is more due to that.
I’ve been doing my best to answer his questions, not take the discussion
off where I want it to go. So, there are some conclusions he comes to that
I don’t think are correct.
He was saying to me last night “you’re whole life is in that brief case,
isn’t it?” I was very surprised at this and said “no” as it isn’t how I
feel about it. It’s a tool case that holds the stuff I use most. I only
carry it up to his office because I need the checkbook in it, the date book
for the next appointment, and don’t want it stolen out of the car while I’m
up there. (Even my wife agreed that was why.)
He knows I get worked up over being on time, and other people being on
time. But, he seems to think that means I schedule every second of every
day, which simply isn’t true. If anything I get worked up over specific
times of scheduled things because I usually don’t lock down my schedule and
have to make sure I do make those things. Spare time and vacations I’m
usually much more of the “let’s take things as they come”. But, he doesn’t
seem to see that.
So, he only sees the really wound up parts. He only sees the really tense
things. And, since those are the things we’re there to help fix, that’s
all I tend to bring up with him.
I’m not sure that he understands that.
So, I’m not sure his suggestion is based on a full enough understanding.
I should also point out it was only a suggestion. He couldn’t prescribe it
anyhow, my primary care physician would have to do so. And, it was just a
“you might want to think about this as it may help” kind of thing. The
fact I’m going on about it so much does show some merit to the idea, right?
I don’t know.
And, honestly, I’m afraid of it.
My experiences with Ritalin were very bad. Granted it was almost 40 years
ago and medications have progressed a lot in that time. But, the memories
of what that was like, even at age 6, make me worry about taking any mood
altering medication unless really needed.
And, I’m an alcoholic. Granted one that hasn’t had a drink in more than 20
years. But, I stopped because I can’t drink just one. I can’t do it
responsibly. And, because 21 ½ years ago my (now) wife said to me “you
become a different person when you drink. And, I don’t like that person.”
(I tell the story of the broken teeth as people tend to accept that better.
But, I broke the teeth 3 years before I gave up drinking.)
One of my grandparents died of complications due to alcohol and morphine
addiction. So, addiction runs in the family. (Both sides, but only one
side had a fatality from it.)
Also, I react unusually to medication. Usually it either doesn’t have any
effect at all, or it has a much stronger than normal one. And, not always
stronger with the intended either.
Things like cold and allergy medicine don’t do a thing for my symptoms and
make me a total zombie mentally. Most pain medication doesn’t work at all
with me. Muscle relaxants that “might cause drowsiness” knocked me out for
half a day. (And, I mean my wife coming home and shaking me awake because
she was afraid I was dead.)
With the Ritalin, my mother said to me “what you’re doing in class scares
your teachers. Don’t do it and you won’t have to take the medicine any
more.” She stopped giving it to me at Christmas. At the end of the school
year the teacher said what a vast improvement the medication made in my
behavior. My mother told the teacher “he hasn’t been taking it. I just
told him how to behave and he did.” (This is one of the few instances
where I appreciate what my mother did for me.)
Can’t the same be accomplished now?
Yes, I’m very wound up about my fears of my wife leaving me or cheating on
me.
Should I address those fears and their root causes, not just medicate them
away?

Some of the folks who are reading this (assuming they haven’t fallen asleep
before getting this far down) have had experience with some of these
medications.
Any suggestions?
Do you think it might help?
Do you think it might hurt?
Let me know.

Comments

[mythfish.livejournal.com]

"If you’ve got a building that may fall down, isn’t it better to shore up the base and not give parachutes to people on the top floor?"

I'd say you want to shore up the base AND give parachutes, but your fear seems to be that giving parachutes will be detrimental to the shoring up process.

You wouldn't be "medicating your fears away". The fears would still be there. The reason for taking the medication would be to lessen the anxiety surrounding the fears so you can better deal with the causes. To use your metaphor, you can shore up the base without worrying about all the people on the top floor who have already escaped with their parachutes. Wait, in your metaphor is your relationship the building or the people? I was assuming it was the building, but if it's the people then I used it wrong. :)

Anyway...it might help or it might hurt. You just have no way of knowing until you try and see how the medication works in your body. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but if you do try them you can always stop taking them if you and Holly notice behavior changes for the worse (the "and Holly" part is very important there because you may not even notice behavioral changes in yourself).

So that's my advice (or lack thereof).

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

My worry is that the counselor thinks that my anxiety is what drove my wife to look for support outside of the relationship.
And, according to what she says, that isn’t the reason.
The anxiety is because I’m afraid she will do it again.
But, I worry he is looking at the wrong end of the problem.
If I can find a way to give my wife enough of what she wants and needs, she won’t look elsewhere and I won’t get upset that she is.
My behavior still needs to be modified to get that chain to break. It just seems to me that he’s focused on the results, not the cause. And, he’s making this suggestion based on that. (And, he didn’t even make it a recommendation. Just a suggestion as something to think about. So, I’m thinking about it.)
Thank you for the thoughts. I do appreciate it.

My Two Cents

[temperlj.livejournal.com]

I pointed out Frank's reservations about medication in the session and I told Frank that if I felt it altered his personality in a bad way I would immediately yank the pills. I had concerns over other types of pills (Xanax, Zoloft) I also noted that perhaps he could look into other methods of reducing anxiety such as mediation, visualization and self-soothing. A bigger issue is his blood pressure and overall health. We referred to it as "the hamster wheel from Hell" where there was a lot of frantic activity (OCD) but it wasn't really going anywhere.

I'm torn on it. The good thing is that it is not addictive and can be dropped immediately if neccessary.

Re: My Two Cents

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

"can be dropped immediately if neccessary."
Actually it says that's not true. Sudden stopping has some very bad effects.

Re: My Two Cents

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

My comments were based on this write up. I'll agree that Wikipedia isn't the best of sources. But, I'm not taking the company that makes it without a grain of salt either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paxil#Withdrawal_syndrome

[perrin-o-ravnos.livejournal.com]

MY honest opinion (as someone who HATES medicine) is only take it if YOU feel it has become a problem. The fact that he only suggested it in passing and not as a "you need this" seems to say he to feels it may not be needed. In summery If you feel the anxiety is causing complications then go for it, if not then dont.

[saeble.livejournal.com]

it looks to me like worry is something ingrained

asking you not to worry, or medicate for it is like asking a beaver not to chew timber

methinks you need to utilise the OCD tendencies to turn your worry on it's head

good old fashioned CBT is probably the best way forward, consciously deciding to alter yourself and your own brain chemistry through will and self affirmation. it works. it probably stopped me offing myself a few times.

ritualise some self help, use a mantra. 'I rock!' in whichever phraseology you like. make yourself what you want to be. Holly's not likely to wander from a studded muffin who carries himself and thinks of himself well.

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

That's closer to the advice I was expecting from the counselor. (And, in case I'm not clear I think it good advice.)
And, that's what I'm trying to do.
But there are a lot of unresolved issues floating around. So, it's hard to say "I rock" when I'm told "you might not be worth staying with. I'll decide later."
I don't see how medication would help that...

[palusbuteo.livejournal.com]

I'd advise to NOT take medication, there has to be other ways, like self motivation (as Saeble has suggested and what your mother had done when you were young) and continue the therapy you've already been doing.

You and Medication do not mix, that much is obvious, and I share your concern in that the meds will bring on symptoms which would amplify the reason for your situation in the first place, as you have mentioned. It never makes sence to me seeing "pills of the month" ads that tote these pills will aleviate your acid-reflux, but the side effects include, but not limited to, acid-reflux, ulcer, upset stomach, internal bleeding, kidney failure, et cetera. Everyone's bodies are going to react differently to such specific-targeting and powerful medications, and you already are aware of the dangers in taking such meds, so don't bother.

I can appreciate the anxiety you feel that has overflowed between your social/personal life and health and your professional life - To use Muythfish's Parachute analogy - You're a paratrooper and you depend on every single person who packs your chute to do their job properly, because when you pull the ripcord, there is a specific function that is supposed to occur because you engineered the parachute to operate in that manner, IF the design was followed properly. But if the packers aren't being supervised by you as they pack it, then how can you really trust they are doing the proper procedure when you've ended up using your emergency reserve chute, or worse, with an anvil attached "by mistake"... I think part of the thing here is you're not taking care of yourself and it's also affecting how you interact with others - such as your professional life - you should be monitoring your coworkers to make sure they're following the plan; likewise you should be aware of how you're interacting with yourself and your wife to make sure you're both following the same plan...

if that makes any sense. But I realize I'm not talking with experience here. So I'll call my soapbox done.

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

A few of my co-workers do know what's going on and do check on me.
So, no real worries there. My only real worry there is that I'm not pulling my weight and earning my money.
(Of course the product I designed has made 43 million dollars this year, so maybe I have...)

[palusbuteo.livejournal.com]

"Of course the product I designed has made 43 million dollars this year, so maybe I have..."

So...that means you've been doing more with less effort...Sounds like what Bottom-Liners are always demanding ;D

That or it's the typical greedy more more more more, proffff-IT!

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

I shouldn't have brought up parachutes....

[julytooth.livejournal.com]

I've always regretted not following Allan's advice. While you believe he has not had enough time to 'hear' you, I assure you he has heard what you said and didn't say, he has observed your actions, reactions and interactions. I found his insights and suggestions to be spot on. I've talked to other of his clients and they agree. I've talked to his colleagues and they have told me to trust him.


I fought him on meds for the reasons you mention, addiction tendencies, side-effects, my own I-am-stronger-than-all-this-and-I-can-defeat-it attitude, fear of covering up the symptoms. I was wrong! I came close to killing myself. I made disastrous decisions that still affect my life. I know I could have avoided a ton of pain if I had only followed Allan's advice.

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

That's one of the things, he didn't advise me to take them. He only advised me to think about it.
So, I'm thinking, which is taking his advice.
But it wasn't a case of him saying "I really think you should take these." It was "have you considered this? It might help. Talk with your doctor and see what she says." He didn't suggest any particular one or type, but did throw out a few names of common ones.
Since it's 3 weeks until my doctor's appointment, and some of the folks who read this have taken this kind of stuff, I'm more looking for "avoid this one, it isn't worth it" or "this one really worked for me" kind of thing.
And, even my wife has said that she thinks he has focused on some of my habits that aren't really the issue. I'm more than willing to say that could just be our opinion and I don't know where he's going. But, I'm not sure it's going the right way just yet. We'll see. It's still early.
And I'm not thinking "I-am-stronger-than-all-this-and-I-can-defeat-it" or I wouldn't be there at all.
We do need help. He's giving help.
"Frank calm down" isn't bad advice.
But, I had been expecting more things in the way of ideas of how to communicate better with my wife, exercises in trust and things like that.
Even he says we need to break the bad feedback loop we get into.
While medication to calm me down might slow that down, I hope there are better ways of breaking it. And, hopefully ways of setting up a good feedback loop.
We'll see.

[zosh.livejournal.com]

After thinking about this, I wanted to say that I am against medication (unless you really want to go that route) and would suggest learning self-relaxation techniques (yoga, meditation, etc.). J pointed out that riding your bike was probably a good way to relax, but this is not the weather for bike riding. So you need to find something else.

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't want to go that route. But, I want to make a good decision too.
I do miss the bike. But, not this time of year.