Since it is discussed elsewhere

[fbhjr]

I was discouraged this week at our therapy session for a couple of reasons.
Wednesday my wife did something that made my very happy.*
I told the therapist about it.
He turned to my wife and asked “did he have to twist your arm to get that?”

That really hurt my feelings for two reasons:
1) The assumption that she will only give me things that make me happy if I
force her to do so.
2) The assumption that I am forcing her to do things she doesn’t want to do.

She says she thinks he was making a joke because she was reluctant to do
the hiatus in the first place so he was surprised she’d willing extend it.
I don’t see a difference in that.
I wouldn’t have minded if he asked her why she did it. Or, asked her how
she felt about doing it. Or, even asked her if she was OK with doing it.
It was the assumption that she must have been forced that bothered me. A
lot.
Last year I had some people I really liked and respected** publicly
say what a bad person I was. Amongst my many evils was being controlling and
manipulative. My wife has said I’m so good at manipulating that I don’t
even know I’m doing it.
So, I worry that I somehow manipulated her into doing this thing that made
me so happy.
I don’t think so. I was totally surprised by it and had to ask “really?”
before I was sure I was reading it right.
I don’t see how I could have manipulated for something I didn’t know was
coming.
But, that’s exactly the kind of thing I’ve been accused of. So, I’m not
sure.
To have the therapist respond in a way that looks like to me he goes along
with that line of thought bothered me.

The other issue that bothered me is that it seems to me that a lot of his
advice is one sided.
We were talking about how she had hidden her feelings from me. That I had
known that she was upset, but she had told me she was upset at other
things, not at me. That if I had known that she was upset with me, I might
have been able to do something about it before things got as bad as they
were.***
He told me that was my fault for not listening to her better.
I didn’t listen well enough. I have no doubt at all about that. I need to
listen better. I need to learn how to listen better.
But, doesn’t she also need to learn how to share what she’s really feeling?
Shouldn’t we be trying to open honest communication both ways?
I said to him “she lied to me about what she felt.”
He said “that’s because you didn’t listen well enough.” Then he turned to
her and said “don’t worry, he can be trained.”
Don’t we both need training?
Is her not telling the truth really acceptable? Does all responsibility
really lie with me in learning to detect it?
I asked him that and he said “you’ve got to be willing to roll those dice.”
It seems wrong to me that honest communication between us rests solely on
my being able to tell if my wife is hiding or lying to be about how she
feels.

She keeps telling me that we’ll get to things she has to change. But, in 3
½ months of seeing him we haven’t. And, we haven’t even gotten to the
point of saying that doing so will ever happen.
So, it is very confusing to me.

She says that I didn’t understand what he was saying. That I took things
to personally.
That may be true.
I asked her if that was really what he said. She said “I was too full of
DayQuil to really be focused on it, so I don’t know.”

He and I do have VERY different styles of communication. So, there is
every chance in the world that I am misunderstanding what he’s trying to
get across.
And, he is the only game in town. It took us months to find someone who was taking new people.
I hope confusing help is better than none.

*I had been very worried about the end of her hiatus from her relationship
with the man she had the affair with last year. It is very difficult for
me to have her spend even social time with someone she says she can’t
resist.
It isn’t a case of my not trusting her because she hasn’t said that she
won’t fool around with him again. She says promising me that would give me
false hope as she isn’t sure she can resist him. She hasn’t even said she
will try to resist him. She’s only said that she “has unresolved feelings
about him” and “hasn’t decided what she wants yet”.
So, since she may well decide she does want to continue with him, and says
she can’t resist him if he asks, I worry a lot about them being together
even socially.
So, her taking a hiatus from all communication with him relieved my fears
that anything was going on from the time she moved back in until it ran
out. As we got closer and closer to the time it was going to run out, I
got more and more worried about it.
On Christmas day she said she would extend it another month.
Wednesday she wrote to him (with my full knowledge and consent) to explain
it was being extended. And, she told him through the end of February.
So, I got an extra month I hadn’t expected or asked for.
Being given double the time with her I expected made me very happy.

** yeah, past tense.

*** This isn’t even about her lying about her affair. This is about her
lying that she was unhappy about things I said and did before that. Things
that maybe if I had corrected then, things might not have gone so badly
later.

Comments

[saeble.livejournal.com]

dude... please remember I say this with your best interests at heart...

Grow a pair.

To explain. I read what you say and you do sound like a little boy lost. Endearing, for a while, but there comes a point where you need to be a man. It's easy for me to say stuff like this, another thing entirely to convince yourself that you rock, that you are pontent, virile, confident and chock full of grunt... when you arent.

The big secret is... your psychological package, doesn't have to be real. It can be a pair of socks stuffed in your jocks and... believe in it enough and suddenly, those socks are suddenly the proverbial genuine 12 inches.

We're all boiling kettles of insecurities sometimes. The trick is to do your best to ignore them. Take the occasional leap of faith, trust yourself, your instincts. Nothing breeds confidence like success. Sadly... success is just the one attempt of 90 which actually worked.

It DOES work. You CAN become the man you always wanted to be if you jam your fist up fears ass and go for it. Ok, so maybe you'll fall over, bloody a knee, but its far worse to just quiver in the corner.

Methinks all Malty really needs is a Frank with Balls(tm).

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

I understand, and do agree.
But, that doesn't make it easy.
I’m supposed to be some combination of Frank with Balls ™ and caring, sharing and sensitive Frank (not yet trademarked).

It tough without knowing what the proportions are supposed to be. And, the only way I’m given to test them has very bad results if I get them wrong.

[saeble.livejournal.com]

draw her attention to this thread and inform her that I'll spank her if she doesnt give you some room to 'fuck up without serious consequence'. You need some room to practise.

[malterre.livejournal.com]

*laugh*

He's allowed to screw up, and I'll even say how/when/why and give details-I think it's that I have to learn to give it less viciously and he to receive more gently ;-)

[tamargrl.livejournal.com]

I wish I could say something helpful and/or poignant. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry to hear that you lost respect for people, but it sounds to me like it was well-deserved. It (and by "it" I mean situations involving miscommunications on a grand scale) is never only one person's fault and if the therapist doesn't give you the impression of listening to you, maybe you might want to find a different one.

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

We had to try almost a dozen therapists to find one willing to take new people.
Some were retiring, some on sick leave, some on maternity leave, some just not talking new people...
It was very frustrating. Even as it is we're driving 40+ miles each way to this guy.
So, one discouraging session isn't enough to make me drop him or anything like that.

[tamargrl.livejournal.com]

Ah. Sheds light on the situation and makes clear why you stay. Well, I liked the comment one person made on her LJ, which was "Ask questions out loud." (re: trying to decide if you misunderstood the therapist) Other than that, I can only offer my hopes that this helps.

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

I am quite happy to take any hope you offer.
Thank you.

[morgan-lafaye.livejournal.com]

Therapy can often feel very one sided. But you have to make yourself heard and understood.Not an easy task,and very easy for me to say to do.Stand up for yourself. Sometimes when you think they are doing or saying one thing what in realaty they are trying to get you to react, to defend yourself or stand up for yourself or take charge. How are you to know this, beats the F*&k out of me. It took almost 28 yrs after the fact to figure out thats what group therapy was trying to do with me as a kid, and hell you know I'm still nuts.(HEHEHEHEHE) But stick with it. You can aways take it out on me, just don't brake my sword.;)

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

Don't worry. I'm not giving up, and don't intend to.
I'm sorry if I gave that impression.
I posted all of this because my wife had said in her LJ how she and I had different views on the therapy session.
I thought it was worth saying why I hadn’t been happy with it so others would not feel the need to speculate. I am tired of being criticized for things I didn’t do and don’t feel. I’m not saying I don’t deserve criticism. But, I want people to be able to have the correct information if they’re going to do it. Because when left to their imagination they come up with some very off base things.

[zemanel.livejournal.com]

Communication is always a two way street, someone who doesn't fully understand that isn't what I'd consider an adequate counselor.

Just because particular therapist is what you could find earlier doesn't mean you should feel restrained to stick with him and not continue to look, openings come up and may be closer and with someone more adequate to both your needs.


As for your overall situation, the best advice you've ever given me was about 6-7 years ago when Tamar was away and Melinda wanted to meet and I knew it was likely that if I got together with Melinda we would end up in the sack.
Your advice at the time was "Don't put yourself in that situation", I didn't, it's much easier to resist temptation if you aren't getting hit by pheromones.

The choice then becomes whether or not to expose oneself to temptation, and that's a choice we can all make...

[fbhjr.livejournal.com]

You know, I've said to my wife "you remember what we told Ze all those years ago? It was good advice..."
But the exposure choice isn't mine to make.